(This is Part 1 of a two-part interview with Jim Ayers and Pete Crosby, IMC SoCal Board members and colleagues at CGR Management Consultants)
Forty years service to a variety of industries. Consulting firm affiliations include the following:
- Theodore Barry & Associates (Los Angeles) 1971-1989 (Vice President/Director)
- Coopers & Lybrand (LA) 1989-1991 (partner)
- Ingersoll Engineers (Rockford IL) 1991-1993 (partner elect)
- CGR Management Consultants 1993-present (principal)
Progressed through the traditional consulting route at Theodore Barry: associate – manager – “partner/director” in charge of a business line. Now independent consultant in the CGR structure.
Author of six books on the integrative discipline of supply chain management including:
- Encyclopedia of Supply Chain Management (editor) due for publication in early 2012.
- Handbook of Supply Chain Management, two editions (2001 & 2006). Best-selling overview and education resource describing skills needed to design supply chains.
- Retail Supply Chain Management (2008) a book designed to help trading partners along the supply chain better understand the economics of the overall chain.
- Supply Chain Project Management, two editions (2003 and 2010). Organized step-by-step process for designing and implementing supply chains.
Diverse consulting assignments in manufacturing, healthcare, utilities, and financial organizations.
BS with distinction from the U.S. Naval Academy. MBA and MS industrial engineering degrees from Stanford. Naval service in U.S. Navy submarine fleet. Born and raised in Jefferson City, Missouri.
Describe your consulting business:
A process engineer at heart, have performed profit improvement/industrial engineering projects in many environments. It never seems to go out of style. Today is no exception.
How and why did you each start your consulting businesses?
I had a double major at Stanford grad school (MBA and MSIE). I interviewed on campus with Theodore Barry & Associates (TB&A), which was in the consulting business. Ted Barry was an industrial engineer from UC Berkeley. The firm had a big contract with the U.S. Postal Service to improve its costs by contracting with IE firms and they needed help.
I was out of the nuclear submarine program in the Navy and hadn’t worked in the business world so TB&A was my initiation. I loved consulting from the beginning. The firm had a laid back, SoCal attitude. My buddies at McKinsey and BCG had short careers there; mine was 18 years. The firm’s business was anything but stable. My flexibility to move between industries and clients kept me employed – and it still keeps bread on the table.
How did you happen to partner in your business? Describe how you handle various duties? What are benefits/advantages to working as partners? Any downside?
I joined CGR in 1993, having known Pete [Crosby]for some time. (Who doesn’t know Pete?) The CGR model is that everyone brings in his/her own business. The affiliation expands the bandwidth and capacity an individual has available, provides companionship, enables joint marketing, and provides sharing of expenses. Insurance is a big expense for those of us who have clients that require it.
Otherwise there is only one rule that is “There are no rules.”
Describe your biggest challenge in consulting and how you met that challenge:
Filling the project pipeline is the biggest challenge. This is a marketing challenge that applies to both single practitioners all the way up to biggest firms. Consultants have to be tuned into the market and able to respond to market shifts.
This is a curse and a blessing since anticipation ahead of others can bring a competitive advantage. Since consulting can be lots of fun and offers a great deal of flexibility, everyone would go into consulting if clients grew on trees. Paraphrasing Geoffrey Bellman (read his book), “If it weren’t for the need to market we would be hip deep in consultants, not knee deep.”
When the going got tough, how did you get going?
When I was with a firm, the days were quite full even when the backlog was low – administration, employees, hiring, seeking out new business, etc. In a practice like CGR I have turned to book writing to smooth the work load – believing that this activity adds to my “capital.” And I think that’s true. Each individual should have something like writing to fall back on that fits their interest and talents. Mine is writing; for others it could be speaking, pro bono work, volunteering at IMC, etc.
As you look back over your career, of what are you most proud?
Whenever you feel you’ve done a good job and the client appreciates it.
Is there anything you would have done differently in your career?
I turned down a job offer from a national firm to go with a small firm that eventually went out of business. I think I was ready for entrepreneurship at that point anyway. I still work with the guy from the small firm who hired me – after 20 years.
What was the best advice you received and from whom?
As an analytical type early in my career (a la Mitt Romney), I was a bit deaf and dumb to establishing close relationships with clients. My boss at TB&A, Mark Marcussen, provided a role model for collaborative consulting that I try to employ since the best analysis may go nowhere unless the client likes and can confide in the messenger (you).
Describe your ideal client:
Someone who I can “partner” with and who I can make a hero in his/her organization.
Describe a recent project (consulting or otherwise):
My colleague at CGR, Keith Kennedy, and I recently completed a management performance audit at San Francisco MTA (“Muni”). It was a challenge technically and in terms of some pushback from the client. It is a neat place to go to and we meet the client in City Hall – very ornate.
What advice would you give to new or established consultants?
Study up on the idea of Activity Systems, a strategy framework from Michael Porter. Every consultant should have one. It is second and third order activities that will sustain a consulting practice. Examples: IMC participation, writing books, writing proposals, speaking, networking with friends, teaching courses, and any other activity that gets you out in the world.
Also, 80% of my revenues have come from referrals by other consultants.
Why do you think clients hire you (what’s the most valuable trait you offer)?
They hire me because someone (another consultant or a reference) recommended me.
What characteristics do you look for in those you recommend to a client?
Someone who listens well. I think the CMC mark is a signal of commitment to the profession. I do agree that most prospects know what it is.
What characteristics do you look for in those you team with?
The first priority is having the skills on the team that enables us to get the job. So filling out the skills requirements is important. Otherwise, someone who listens.
How do think management consulting differs today from 10 years ago?
I suspect, but don’t have the data, that it is more fragmented. Technology and the ability to define one’s own niche has made it possible for really good consultants to survive on their own.
What do you see as the future of consulting (both in regards to skill sets and in what industries)?
This moves around a lot. To a great degree, there are fads and fashions. Right now, I’m seeing lots of demand from the public sector to “do more value for money.”
Do you think offering some work – at no cost – is okay? Why or why not? And if so, how much time?
It will depend on the individual and the situation. I think one should ask for at least a modest upfront payment even if it’s not a full rate. Big firms and others ask for retainers. One advantage is that you iron out the obstacles in Accounts Payable that seem to go with every new client.
What do you think is the best way to price consulting work?
One has to go with the market and competitive environment. I have a preference for pricing for deliverables. But those have to be supported by an hourly rate analysis. One thing you don’t want to do is lose the trust of the client over money.
When were you happiest in your work?
I still think it’s a kick. Every project or proposal requires a fresh approach.
What’s the magic ingredient for successful consulting?
It’s called hard work – “keeping your in basket full.” Patience is in order as well.
Do you have a hobby, interest or passion, outside of work?
I have a somewhat “OK” golf game. I also like to travel to far off places with my wife Paula; and I go backpacking once a year in the Sierras.
What value do you think membership in IMC has provided to you?
The ROI is fantastic! Remember 80% of the business comes from consultant referrals.
Any final words of wisdom?
Nope
Jim Ayers can be reached at: jayers@cgrmc.com
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